Silvija Seres: Hello and welcome to Lørn. My name is Silvija Seres and our topic today is tech 4 good. My guest is Mauricio Sestopal, lawyer turned techie entrepreneur with a company called MuniDigital from Argentina. Welcome. 

Mauricio Sestopal: Thank you. You pronounced my name correctly. 

Silvija: What brings you to Norway and what do you do? 

Mauricio: We have developed a platform that’s for municipalities and we transform every city into a smart city. I came to Norway with my whole family, my little baby and her mother. We came because of the accelerator program that is Katapult. They’re planning to build a world where people want to live. We’re building the cities that people want to live in. It was a connection and that was how we ended up here, through Katapult of course. Had to send some documentation, and we started talking and it was great. So we ended up here. 

Silvija: MuniDigital is a municipality with smart infrastructure. Which is not only smart and efficient, but in a happy sense as well. 

Mauricio: Yes, that’s the point. Happiness is related to life quality. So if our technology manages to help public workers to do a better provision of public service we end up with citizens receiving better service. For instance we suddenly have citizens that’s happier.

Silvija: Katapult do social impact. Can you tell us a bit of how you see social impact?

Mauricio: Social impact today is creating and generating things that make changes in societies for people improving their quality of life now. Of course there’s many different kinds of social impact. What we know is basically with cities and that is what we’re working on with sustainability goals and sustainable cities. 

Silvija: You’re an Argentinian lawyer. Do you use any of the law background? And how did you decide to become an entrepreneur?

Mauricio: SInce I was in school I’ve always been doing things by myself. I believe law has been a great tool to learn and to have a good background. I believe that law is the world of not doing, but I’ve learned the world by not doing, and I started to work more with my entrepreneuring and that’s how I ended up with MuniDigital. I’ve always been a crazy entrepreneur doing projects. 

Silvija: We like doers. Doers move the world forward, not the talkers. Tell me about MuniDigital. What is it and how does it work? 

Mauricio: It’s a very easy platform. It’s a platform based in a web and mobile technology. We also have complimentary IOT sensors. We deploy the network into the municipalities at the beginning at an eternal level, so we help municipalities workers to be more efficient and transparent. Then we move on to citizens where we get to them with the same technology, but we work with a connection between citizens and public workers directly through an app or web device. That’s how you start i.e with claims requests, they’re directly connected. It’s like an operation management system so it’s like the back office of the municipality. When it comes to operations and daily activities providing better services. 

Silvija: Give us concrete examples of services. 

Mauricio: Imagine when I was talking about claims in the city that’s put in the social matter specifically. Don’t imagine only the big cities, just think about cities of 50 000 inhabitants. Little cities where the probably use some paper devices. We just transform that. And when it comes to claims and social necessities instead of calling the municipality they use their app. So we have the geolocation information and we end up having all of the possibilities of how it's solved. We start knowing what's happening, we have real time information, and the municipality has the information to improve the provision of those services. It works with connecting citizens with public workers with social issues, claims regarding lamps that are broken, potholes in the city, problems with trees as well. It's basically all of the worries outside on the street, that's where we aim.

Silvija: Will this mean that people will overuse public services? Too many people will start calling municipalities asking for help? How do you optimize they way that we use these services?

Mauricio: You believe you have the channel, the communications. Hey, you'll have another channel so you'll probably collapse with all of that information. But that's not how it works because if we do it on an internal level first, and you help municipality workers to optimise their job and their work, to improve their daily communications center. If we add some data on their phones they will improve the decisions that will go to the citizens. It's not a matter of collapse, the channel is available. Now you have social networks, if people are angry about something they'll just send information there. The problem is that municipality workers still have the same technologies that they used to have 20 years ago.

Silvija: You're giving a new tool to the municipality worker so that if I call they can get analytic help of understanding the background, me and my request, and be better able to serve me.

Mauricio: Yes. The data is critical to understand what's happening.

Silvija: How do you gather the data?

Mauricio: Through citizens, public workers, reporting.

Silvija: But you start now? It's not like it's tons of data that you have to import?

Mauricio: No, but we're an API receiver so if there are any other systems we use data to help the municipality workers with analytical tools to have a better understanding of the situation.

Silvija: What was the most difficult thing about getting this project running? Why is it difficult and why is it exciting?

Mauricio: I will start with the good one first because it's always different in every single city even though they have the same problems. They're kind of different. It's an opportunity to make changes in different environments. When I say environments it's 100 000 inhabitants and then you have cities of 2 millions, and it's the same technology whether you're big or small. That's the exciting part of what we're doing. The hard part is when you don't have the feedback from the municipalities or they have questions, and "why data? Why should we change?". They're afraid of changing sometimes. That's the difficult part to engage with technology because we start from the inside of the municipal level. That's the hardest part of our technology.

Silvija: Do you have to inspire people in a special way to start using this? How are you able to sell these projects?

Mauricio: We don't inspire them, we just have the first talk. Who inspires is the people inside who's starting to use the technology, probably young people or people who're tired of using paper based devices. Those are the game changers here. Municipalities workers who's willing to do things more efficiently and better.

Silvija: Then they ask you for a pilot project?

Mauricio: Yes. Actually the mayor is the main decision maker in this case or they decide whether they'll use the technology. Once the mayor says we move over with implementation. That's a one day program. Then they start using it, but the people who're very involved and are using the technology, we call them the good virus. They are spreading the words of technology and that it's better than the old things.

Silvija: I love the way you talk about it. What you say is all the cities have the same problems, yet every city is different in the way they approach it and try to solve it. I’ve been building search engines for people and I remember the same sort of attitude. There is not a big difference in the way they gather data, but it's the understanding of the value. The understanding of the drivers. That's where you can help them with unique solutions on the same platform. That's the beauty of this thing.

Mauricio: That’s the point of leveling. When you think of smart cities or technology we think the big cities. New York, Paris, Oslo, what about the rest of the cities? People are different all over the place, not only because they live in a small village. They should have the same technology. The good thing about technology is that the smartphone is over there, so the hardware that is probably the most difficult thing is there. You need to understand how to use it and that's what we're trying to do. I understand your point.

Silvija: The other thing I liked about what you say is that you say we have to get them started. One day of implementation. I think too many good and responsible public institutions are trying to find the perfect sauce. The perfect solution. They're doing analysis works, committees meetings, planning. They're trying to find the perfect formula which doesn't exist. You just have to start and keep developing your own formula. That's what you're enabling these people to do.

Mauricio: Yes, you said it, you have to start. That's the key here. Doing things more than thinking how you'll do it. I believe there's a new wave called goth(?) tech. It's all around the world right now where startups are working together with public governments. Not only for the big ones, but for the ones that are ready. That's the point.

Silvija: Is it something you'll think you'll take from Norway? Not only the money from Katapult, but the values from Norway? Is there anything you find particular inspiring?

Mauricio: Definitely.

Silvija: What?

Mauricio: Planning. Norwegians love to plan and it's really amazing how they're doing it. That's what we have achieved as one of the main thing that mentors have helped us prepare for. Whether it is scaling or improving customer service. It's a part of planning ahead. Usually in Latin-America we're more doers. Usually we don't have enough time to plan. We have managed to find this moment and understand the value of planning. But also the real value of what you're doing. They have been building this program in line with the sustainability goals. It's really important to understand what your real value is. Value and planning has been the key factors in this program.

Silvija: Do you have any recommendations for reading or viewing that would inspire them about what you do? Where could we send them? Do you have a book that gets you inspired?

Mauricio: More than a book or a movie, just walking around and going to different cities. Visiting different places. That's what inspires you to try to change things.

Silvija: Basically observing the world around.

Mauricio: Exactly.

Silvija: Do you have a quote?

Mauricio: It's a quote from Mandela. About that, we should not rest until the world is completely out of inequality, injustice. Of course it's many things to start with but the point is to get ready to do it and do something.

Silvija: Mauricio Sestopal, from Muni Digital, thank you for coming here to us in Lørn and inspiring us more on gov.tech and tech 4 good

Mauricio: Thank you.

Silvija: Thank you for listening.