Silvija Seres: Hello and welcome to Learn. My name is Silvija Seres and this is a podcast in collaboration with Telenor. Today, our topic is the interface between business and technology in the world of Telco but also generally socially critical infrastructure. And I'm very lucky to have Camilla Amundsen, the chief marketing officer for TV and fixed services at Telenor Norway as my guest. Welcome, Camilla. 

Camilla Amundsen: Thank you. 

Silvija: Camilla we're going to talk about how you are modernizing a critically important part of the infrastructure that the whole society of Norway depends on. And when people think about, you know, fixed telephony or TVs, they don't think of that as critically important. But we forget how many other services that are crucial to our lives and safety actually happen on that network. Before we talk about what you do. I was hoping that you could say just a few words about who you are and what drives you.

Camilla: Yes. Camilla, I'm from Bergen. I'm 42 years old. I have a husband from Stavanger. And I have two wonderful kids. Yeah. And I love my job.  I'm very excited about technology and how technology can make a change for people and also how we can use data and insight to be even more relevant for people.

Silvija: So what was your path? What was your study?

Camilla: Yeah, I studied industrial economics and technology management at NTNU 

Silvija: Which is this kind of cross-functional study of technology and business?

Camilla: Yes. And I was so excited when I found this direction I was considering either being an engineer or to study economics. And then I found industrial economics. And I just. Yes. This is what I'm going to do. And I’ve never been regretting that.

Silvija: When I used to hire people, I usually needed techies, but that had the right business instincts. And my favorites were always from industrial economics.. 

Camilla: Yeah.

Silvija: So how did you find Telenor? Was that your first job or?

Camilla: No, actually, when I started to work, I started to work for Accenture. I thought that was a good start because then I could work in different industries and different areas before I kind of landed. And it's for me; it was a good way to learn more.

Silvija: Gives you broad exposure.

Camilla: Yeah, definitely. And now I've learned that, of course, you learn all the way. I’m still learning though. So, yes, I was there for 10 years, actually.

Silvija: Yeah.

Camilla: First for three years and then I had two years working for *** and then I went back and I had seven more years. And I'm really happy for that. Yes. It was a good journey.

Silvija: So you are a chief marketing officer? 

Camilla: Yes. 

Silvija: What does a chief marketing officer do? 

Camilla: Yeah. 

Silvija: For especially your part of Telenor.

Camilla: Yeah. I am responsible for the consumer broadband and TV and solutions, and customers' deliverables. So it's a complete P&L responsibility.

Silvija: So you make sure that we make current that your part of the organization makes their numbers and so you focus on sales and marketing as part of that?

Camilla: Yes, sales and marketing and customer journeys actually.

Silvija: Okay. So what is TVM fixed? You mentioned broadband. 

Camilla: Yeah. In total we in Telenor Norway consumer, we have 800,000 broadband customers. And we have them on different technologies. We have it on the oldest copper technology, hybrid fixed coax technology and then now on fiber technology.

Silvija: So this is different from the mobile networks that go through the mast and radio. This is basically cabling in the ground?

Camilla: Yes.

Silvija: But you have to have that in order to have the sort of bandwidth that we now require. So help us understand the three technologies. Most of us have no idea other than knowing that the copper stuff is something old and then coax is something almost as old. 

And then what? What are the three things that you mentioned? 

Camilla: Yeah, and the copper is actually more than a hundred years old. And today we use it for XDSL or 

Silvija: It’s the slow network.

Camilla: Yeah, it's a slower network and it's definitely not good enough. What the customers require today was originally for Airport telephony.

Silvija: So it works for a kind of information that telephone conversation requires in a digital setting, but it won't do for Netflix streaming, for example.

Camilla: Yeah, you can. Because we have improved its But it's. The average speed is around; it's 10 megabits per second.

Silvija: So coax these a hybrid solution? So faster?

Camilla: Yes, faster and fiber is the fastest and it's the best and it's what everybody wants to have today.

Silvija: So your job is in a way to roll out fiber where we had coax and copper?

Camilla: Yeah. And actually now we have decided to close down the copper network. So we are on a really exciting modernization journey here in Norway. And we have said, okay, we're closing down the copper network within the next four years. So it's a huge task we have in front of us. And it will be much better for our customers because the customers that have already decided they don't then do not want to have this old technology. Actually, last year 15 percent of XDSL customers lost them and 25 percent of the pot customers. So the customers, they have chosen already, this is old technology and it is not good enough for this society. We need better solutions.

Silvija: So but this is a huge project rolling out these fiber optics in the whole country. I mean, we're talking about...

Camilla: ...this is the biggest project we are running.

Silvija: Infrastructure wise? 

Camilla: Yeah, definitely. And it's even more exciting because now we are taking away the copper network and we are building fiber, but not only fiber because no mobile and broadband meet, because we cannot build fiber to every house in Norway, in rural areas it’s ot that efficient to do that. So now we need we have started we have just launched a few months ago a fixed mobile solution. So now we deliver fixed broadband over the mobile network. So it's gear locked soit's still a fixed product. But in this way, we can manage to deliver high speed broadband to the whole country.

Silvija: So this way, basically, you use 5G where you can't have the right fiber optics and…?

Camilla: ...yes actually we start with the 4G because we are going to build 5G and we have started that right. But today we have 4G and we have Telenor. We have the fastest 4G network and we have 99.8 percent coverage where people live. So we have a lot of capacity there wecan use to give the customers better solutions than what they get over the copper network today.

Silvija: Camilla, it's obvious why this is very exciting. But in terms of controversies, I mean, everybody wants this. So how do you prioritize? How do you optimize this kind of a project? It's a really cool leadership task.

Camilla: And we have had some dilemmas: should we use the 4G network or should we wait for the 5G network? Should we build more fiber or should we start to use the mobile network? And now we want to do this within 4 years, the customers, they have decided. So we try to optimize so that we can do this as fast as possible and to give really good...

Silvija: ...you use some of these data insights in order to optimize the rollout or how does that work?

Camilla: Yeah, actually we have made a master plan for this. So we have mapped the broadband and mobile infrastructure plans. So now we can on a wholesale level, we have made a detailed plan for what we are going to deliver here, for everybody.

Silvija: Can I ask you about our international listeners? So basically you were doing this for Norway, but I can imagine that many other countries have a similar problem. Is there a way to roll this out internationally to other parts of Telenor? This kind of transition?

Camilla: Yeah, I would be more than happy to share this with other countries and technology and companies and Telstra in Australia they have done this. I do not think they did it over 4 years, but they have done it and we have some other countries as well butI think in Norwegian in Norway, Telenor is quite the head here. And I also want to mention that in Norway we have this AECOM plan where we are going to deliver...

Silvija: ...a national strategy? 

Camilla: Yeah, it's a digital strategy, kind of. You are going to deliver 100 megabits per second to 90 percent of the inhabitants within 2020. 

Silvija: Hundred megabits per second is a lot 

Camilla: Yes. That's a lot and that's really good. And today we have only 2 for 82. But what you can see is a huge difference between the rural areas and this more heavily populated areas.

Silvija: The last 10, 20 percent will be hard.

Camilla: Yes. So. So it's. You have. It's not fair today so people. You cannot live in the countryside if you have a modern job. It can be that kind of challenge. So by doing this, Telenor is really contributing to Norwegian society. And of course, that is really exciting.

Silvija: And we are one of the countries with the best broadband coverage and improving it now. And I think we sometimes underestimate how much this was driving the other kinds of digitalization of this society.

Camilla: Yeah. And especially we have been really ahead when it comes to mobile coverage, but also on broadband. And now we are doing even more and we are having meetings with all the municipalities in the whole Norway. So we have heavy are have speed dates with all of them. So now we have met more than 200 in the last half year so that we can build a plan together. 

Silvija: Collaborating. I have kids that go to school here in Fornebu, and one of the things that we see is that if there is a problem with the network, they can't even submit their homework. So, you know, you said this is a socially critical infrastructure. It is going to be the way that we work with our health, with our education, with our traffic, with our energy.

Camilla: Yeah. It's so important to have the infrastructure. And then you can have services on top and that's it. We deliver TV services in the department I'm leading. And of course, you need a really good broadband to watch TV on it.

Silvija: Can I ask you so there is TV, but there is going to be much more with the Internet of Things and Smart Homes. Is that something that's somewhere on your plan?

Camilla: Yes. Smart Homes, Internet of Things is something we are definitely working on in Telenor and we have started and there are lots more opportunities going forward within these areas.

Silvija: I think that's also an area where we still don't understand how crucial it's going to be for us five years from now. But if you make it possible, then we'll get there.

Camilla: And like you, when you have this 5G network that is coming, it will be real time messaging. Some that you can like this self-driving cars. You need to have that. And also, if you're having a doctor in one country and you're doing remote operation, you need it to be real time.

Silvija: Mm hmm. 

Camilla: And then you need very good infrastructure.

Silvija: It doesn't work when it goes down or is too slow. So when you mentioned I really am fascinated by this collaboration with the public sector. Basically, Telenor is doing a part of infrastructure building that was normally, you know, a task for the public sector, municipalities or counties. How do you collaborate? They tell you what's the most, how you should prioritize or can you co-finance or this is this is an important way of working.

Camilla: Yeah. 

Silvija: In the future I think. 

Camilla: Yeah. Well we have met with them. Yeah, I definitely agree. And we have met with them to tell us about our plans and to give an understanding of what we are doing now with our copper network. And of course, we need to make sure that they are not because they are not going to lose it. They are going to get something else and better. So. And then we need to do if it's not efficient to build somewhere, then we then we need to collaborate 

Silvija: And maybe they need to understand the potential that is in this new kind of network, because I think there is a lack of knowledge on that as well. 

Camilla: And they are very eager. And it's especially about the service systems. It's about them and their job. It's about safety. It's about the school, it’s about the kindergarten, it’s about the old people and the solutions for them. And it's 

Silvija: Yeah, I think this welfare set of solutions and services and healthcare where, you know, some of the critical services that you have to go to the hospital today or to the doctor, we will be doing more from home, something that's also a huge cost savings opportunity for the public sector. And so they really should look into rolling things out as quickly as absolutely possible.

Camilla: Yeah. And that's really exciting with the technology because you can get both cost saving and a better customer experience. So, yes, it's both. And that's something that I find really exciting about working with technology.

Silvija: So I want to ask you very briefly about that. You mentioned as we started that what really drove you was, you know, technology's effect on business and on society. And my impression is that the way we communicate technology to girls and boys is too nerdy, too technical. We tell them how it works rather than why it's important. Are you able to communicate what you do? Are you able to attract enough women? What can we do so more women can take your path?

Camilla: I think we need to tell the stories that with technology you can really make a difference. I mean, technology will be so critical to solve the huge problems we are facing. So it's...

Silvija: That’s how we change the world?

Camilla: That is definitely how we change the world.

Silvija: Where can people begin to learn? What would you advise them to read or.

Camilla: Yeah. And it's not just one source. I mean, in general, you need to be curious. You can read industry related magazines. You can join conferences. You can find podcasts. You can search, of course, on the Internet and you can go to Havard. You have a lot of schools like that. A lot of information is available.

Silvija: There are these MOOCs, etc… that are very good. Usually we don't take time for them. But I think one of the things that I'm hoping to do with this podcast is basically this is a very low threshold in terms of time. You know, you can listen to it on your way to work. And then maybe people get inspired to go and read the book or.

Do you have a quote you'd like to leave with our listeners as a parting gift?

Camilla: Yeah. One of my favorite quotes is be the change you want to see in the world.

Silvija: Mm hmm. 

Camilla: I think that's nice.

Silvija: Don't wait for the change. But basically initiate it.

Camilla: You can do a lot. 

Silvija: Yeah. 

Camilla: Mm hmm.

Silvija: But I think that's a very important part of understanding that, you know, many people think that digitalization is something that's forced upon us. You know, we are being digitized, but I think that's wrong. I think we are digitizing with our behavior as customers. We are behaving as leaders or technologists.

Camilla: Yeah. And you can start to test and try new solutions.

Silvija: And I think by having the courage to, you know, take these active, new, enormous projects. But basically, you know, if not us, then who? 

Camilla: Yeah. I mean, it's so fun to take on huge responsibility and find a way to solve it together with your colleagues. 

Silvija: Mm hmm. Very cool. If people are to remember one thing from our conversation, we talked a lot about, you know, technology and society. We talked about modernization through replacement, etc.. What do you think is the most important thing they should take away?

Camilla: If you want to drive change, you should definitely work within technology. 

Silvija: Mm hmm. Those are the most efficient tools. 

Camilla: Yeah. 

Silvija: To change these things. 

Camilla: Yep.

Silvija: Right. Camilla Amundsen, CMO of TV and fixed for Telenor Norway. Thank you so much for coming here at very short notice and inspiring us to think about how improved infrastructure changes our society.

Camilla: Thank you. Nice to be here

. 

Silvija: And thank you for listening.