Velkommen til Lørn.Tech - en læringsdugnad om teknologi og samfunn. Med Silvija Seres og venner.

Silvija Seres: Hello and welcome to this LØRN podcast. My name is Silvija Seres and my guest today is Jennifer Vessels, who's a future ready innovator for the Next Step and Executive Growth Alliance. Welcome, Jennifer.

Jennifer Vessels: Thank you. It's an honor to be here.

Silvija: It's a pleasure to have you here. We have been postponing our date and to get to know each other better for, as you said, about two or three years. So finally you are here!

Jennifer: It's wonderful to be here and timing is everything.

Silvija: Exactly. And this style of this conversation is really a live date between two people interested in the future. And you are part of the series called WLT, which stands for Women LØRN Tech, where we talk with interesting and inspiring women with perspectives on technology and the future. And you're in the middle of our target group. So welcome.

Jennifer: Thank you. And I do love the topic because just a little bit of context. My background is primarily in commercial sales and marketing partnerships that go to market for technology companies. I'm from Silicon Valley where I still maintain a residence. Back in the nineties I was with a company called Bass Networks and came to Europe to build their international go to market and commercialization. And after a few years in Belgium, the U.K., I joined Tandberg based in Oslo, Norway. And that's how I first came to Norway. I worked for four years working with Tandberg, building international business, expanding across Europe, then back to the US where we built Tandberg USA. And ultimately I went back to Silicon Valley and founded Next Step, with the goal of helping global company leaders, and that could be in startups all the way up to large companies. We work today with Google, Cisco, Adobe and a lot of non tech companies around how do you really grow your business, the revenue, the valuation, top and bottom line. And we do a lot in bringing people together to work together and solve problems amongst peers and amongst small groups. That's what led to the Executive Growth Alliance that I'll share more about as we get into the conversation.

Silvija: Can you say a little bit more about your home base, Silicon Valley? So we'll get back to the comparisons between Norway and Silicon Valley later. But what do you love and miss about Silicon Valley?

Jennifer: The global ideas. I mean, we are a very diverse community. I mean, there is no one background or nationality. It's very much a community of collaboration. There is, of course, competition, but there is really a spirit that everybody in Silicon Valley is there with a mission and a purpose. 90% of us came from somewhere else. And so we're there intentionally to follow our passion, follow our dreams, build new companies, new ideas, new technologies, new ways to do things better. It's that open growth mindset that to me is just the pervasive nature of Silicon Valley. I'm starting to see that in little pods across other places in Europe and certainly here in Norway, that it's just the core of the way things work in Silicon Valley to me.

Silvija: We spoke briefly about this age ago. So I have my background. I'm originally Hungarian. Yugoslavian. Studied computer science in Norway. And then I went to Oxford for a PhD. And that brought me over to Silicon Valley in 99 to work on Alta Vista. And I remember the open growth mindset. It was a different time in Silicon Valley as well. It was more techie, nerdy than it is now. Now it's more business. And the other thing that I know is this unbridled ambition. And I don't mean on behalf of how much money am I going to make, but it's more we are going to build the best whatever in the world, search engine or operating system or something else with chips inside. And there's no question that this is the best solution in the world. They really mean it. And I love that.

Jennifer: Yes. That's part of the community of passionate, really open, committed, brave people that have a clear vision, have the persistence and are willing to do what it takes to break through and make things happen.

Silvija: So I've been trying to build similar things here in Norway and now lately in London. And people think I'm a little too much when I kind of try to build something which has that level of confidence, passion and persistence. Why is it achieved in Silicon Valley and why is it so difficult to build other places?

Jennifer: I think part of it is that Silicon Valley is a magnet for people that have that passion. It is challenging. There are parts of living in Silicon Valley that are challenging. It's extremely expensive. The traffic and the logistics of getting around Silicon Valley make it difficult sometimes. So people come because they have a strong desire and they want to be part of that magnet. They want to be part of the growth. They have that passion and that determination. And that, I think, is a core part that is lacking. And it's not a judgment, but it's just simply so far different from the culture in Norway, when the vast majority of the population of Norway was born here. It's in many ways quite a comfortable place to have a good life without having to fight and struggle and do things that are against the grain. So it's just a completely different culture. Silicon Valley draws the people that want to break the barriers and go over the hurdles and fight through. Whereas Norway has some of us that feel that way, but the majority of the population is from a different mindset.

Silvija: I think it has to do with this ability and willingness to go outside of your comfort zone and being driven enough to do it. And yet both you and I are here in Norway and we have our own reasons for that. Personally, I have a Norwegian husband and I really wanted my kids to grow up in Norway for reasons that I think would be valid for most women I know from Silicon Valley. I think Silicon Valley is unlivable for a family life. At some point you have to make a choice. Am I going to do it all 100%, 150%, as is required work wise? Or am I going to find a place that maybe has less professional growth opportunities but has a more balanced life setting? And Norway is amazing in that sense.

Jennifer: I would completely agree. And people do raise families in Silicon Valley. I have many friends who have been there for 20 or 30 years and raised families. But it's challenging. It's significantly more challenging than it is in Norway. But it's one of those things. It's a question of if your passion in life is to really bring your ideas to the market. Breakthrough, drive change. If that is your passion, Silicon Valley in ways is a lot easier because that's way more accepted, it's way more common. You've got other people around you doing that. If your passion at this stage in your life and things are forever, we've all seen things change in this stage of your life. If you want to dedicate your priority to raising your family in a very high quality way of life environment, Norway is the best possible place to be at that stage.

Silvija: So I would like us to use that as a magnet for talent. I think also there is a new generation of talent that looks at that. By the way, I read about the exodus from Silicon Valley. A lot of my friends are moving, but I hear that there is simply a move towards other places. It's slightly cheaper to buy a house close to Google headquarters. Now, that has been for a long time.

Jennifer: If housing prices continue to go up actually right now. And it's interesting on this exodus, because if you look at the history of Silicon Valley, there is always a dynamic turn of people. And there are always periods where there's waves of people that come that make a difference. They achieve their goals. They get to that reigning point where they want it to be the reason they came to the magnet and then they go elsewhere. That's been a pattern over the last 50 years. So what we have read in the press over the last couple of years of, oh, my gosh, everyone's leaving Silicon Valley. I mean, I don't see that at all. What I see is a number of people that were of the generation that built their companies in the nineties. They're at the stage where they've reached their goals. Why not move to a less expensive place where you can have a huge ranch and enjoy your life and your grandkids? That's just part of the dynamics while the next generation is coming in just as fast as they ever have. I see tons of growth with the Millennials and the Gen Zers coming into Silicon Valley with a very strong passion to be part of the engine that is there today. So to me, it's just a dynamic life cycle of how Silicon Valley works.

Silvija: I also see a pattern with these millennials and Gen Z, others that are more concerned with sustainability values, triple bottom line and the kind of quality of life in general than just winning the game. And so the question is: could Norway be better at employer branding of itself and actually attract some of these people? Because in many ways, I see check, check, check, check on many points that we have in Norway. We have brilliant deep tech groups. We have this ability to have interesting work and a holistic life, both for men and women, which I think is one of the best setups in the world. We have great education, health care, etc., for you and your family. So we have a public sector that I think is both a rich and knowledgeable customer with a lot of needs going forward. So if we were a little bit better at positioning in Norway we could get this talent to come to Norway. We could perhaps move faster forward. Or what do you think?

Jennifer: I completely agree. And in all of my 20 years of living in Norway, Silicon Valley, dividing my time between the two, which I've done in the last few years, I totally see all of the advantages. I think Norway is the best kept secret in the world because everything you name, the high academic performance, high research, high capabilities, skills and technology science commitment to really changing the world that plays so nicely for that next generation. But it's a very well kept secret. And I feel like for recruiting people as well as for taking companies out into the world, the part that is missing, which is a great opportunity, is how do we communicate it? How do we message the beauty of Norway? How do we reach those people with that message and bridge that gap to bring them here? Because I do think what Norway has to offer is ideally suited for the next generation of upcoming change artists that could really bring a whole new dynamic culture, bringing people from other areas to build their careers and begin to build their lifestyles here.

Silvija: Jenny, the one other thing that I think we talked a lot about is a super power that Silicon Valley has. And it's not just about building these amazing platforms or things with chips inside. I think their ability to think about business transformation and to conceive of new business models is something that very few other areas in the world are as good at. You are running Next Step and you're trying to help companies actually conceive of their next generation business model and opportunities. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Jennifer: Absolutely. And one of the things that I think is often missed with Silicon Valley and what really drives people is the passion and the desire to achieve and the desire to make things happen. The second part is many times when we in Silicon Valley identify a new opportunity, create a new company, or see a need to shift the business model way of doing business. We tend to look at it from the point of view of where are the inefficiencies in the market? Where is a problem that needs to be solved? Because I can take my passion, I can take my skills and go sell something and make a difference if I start with the problem or the inefficiency. A small side note about Norway is I think there is a tendency to start with, I've got a great idea, I've got technology: how can I build it? That's completely opposite. The Silicon Valley mindset is where is a problem and how can I bring something to solve it?

Silvija: Yeah, a side note there. I don't even remember which of the books it is, but it's one of these luminaries from Silicon Valley, maybe it was The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz, and he was talking about what really differentiates a successful entrepreneur in the end from all those others that thrive. And it's not necessarily about having the best Ph.D. or developing the best platform or the best tech or the best product, or it's having this passion for the problem. It's absolutely. What's your problem you’re solving that you can't go to bed until you solve it. 

Jennifer: I call it the rant. What do you rant about to your friends saying it drives me crazy. I mean, Airbnb started with a rant of why are people paying $200 a night to sleep in a crappy hotel room? We have space here and we need money. Uber started with a rant. So that's the mindset and starting companies on what is missing and how can I use my skills to fix it. When it comes to transformation, it's very much the same. I was extremely honored to be in a position with my Next Step client, Adobe, back in the mid 2000, and Adobe, like most companies, had had a really good run for about 20 years of build a product, sell it, wait about 18 months, release the update, sell it 18 months, release the update, sell it. I could have gone out of my comfort zone for a long time, except there were signs in the early 2000s that some of the customers in the market were not willing to continue to pay that much money. Every 18 months, the world was changing. Apple was releasing a lot of new products. That 18 months was too long to wait for new software. There were Agile capabilities coming. It was ramblings in the market. There was a recognition that something is up and there's inefficiencies here. We've got to shift our business model. It was recognizing that an approaching necessity was there. And with a little pre planning it was done, in a really good position to do that. It then took 2 to 3 years before other companies recognized, oh, it’s happening in my market as well. I need to shift now. How do I go about doing it? What do companies and leaders need to do today to transform? I would suggest they should look at where the inefficiencies are. What are customers asking for that they're not receiving? Where are they losing business? What's changing around them that could damage or impact the way they go to market now and start shifting in advance of problems?

Silvija: To be able to do that, Jennifer, you have to be continually or positively dissatisfied. I don't even know what the right word is, but it's not very easy. When you're on the board of a company that's really making money and you need to take a risk to do something new because you know that ten years from now, we'll be in a really uncomfortable position. But I can't guarantee that this is the only and the best and the most efficient way forward. So how do we create that sense of urgency and necessity?

Jennifer: I think it comes to mindset and when it comes to Silicon Valley, we all tend to have that passion, make it better, willing to do anything to make it a better mindset. So it's a shorter time from seeing the inefficiency to let's just dive in. And within the Executive Growth Alliance, which I should define what that is. It's basically a global community where we bring together leaders in different organizations, different countries, different backgrounds. We bring them together in small groups, 6 to 10 people that have a shared challenge. A common, specific, actionable challenge that they work together and get different perspectives and they hold each other accountable for taking action. Within that community of people, many have achieved major breakthroughs in short periods of time through a process of taking action. I come away saying the debates are really proactively driving change, making things better, being innovative, is the mindset that I call P.E.A.C.E. And it starts with your passion and your purpose. What are you trying to achieve? Understand that. Then explore. Ask questions of what are other people ranting about and seeing as inefficiencies? Explore where there's problems.

Jennifer: And take action when you sense that something is going to change or is changing, or you think it may be an opportunity to do something about it. Don't wait two years and research it and think about it. Just try it. What's the worst that could happen? If it doesn't work, you can try something different. So start with the purpose and the passion. Explore, take action and collaborate. Talk to others, bring others in to help you solve specific actionable challenges. I think in Norway there is a tendency when you have an idea or a problem. There's a tendency for people to go to the silo, oh, I've got to work on my problem. I've got to focus. I can't talk to anybody. I've got an idea. I'm going to go down and do it. The Silicon Valley mindset is. Take action, collaborate, share with as many people as possible. The idea is only going to get better. And in doing so, you empower others to come in with you.

Silvija: I just want to draw in the position or the perspective of LØRN in here now because exactly what you talked about sharing now has nothing to do with all the amazing sharing that our guests are doing. But it's me as the entrepreneur now. There is a tendency to think that I have an amazing idea here. I really believe that I should just develop it as much as I can and then and then get people on as partners. And we are in the process of looking for money at the moment. In that process we actually had quite a lot of strategic conversations, first with investors, and then we decided to talk with possible industrial partners. So companies that are doing something slightly similar. There was this risk of giving away all your ideas and somebody else doing them. But what I'm seeing is that actually by sharing with these people, we are both developing our strategies and there might turn out to be an amazing collaboration or even a merger down the line. The growth that you get by bouncing these ideas off other heads that might have been ranting about something related is invaluable.

Jennifer: I absolutely agree. To be honest, that is Silicon Valley culture. One plus one equals three. The overall. What you get by sharing, collaborating with others, in my experience, is always more than simply the sum of the parts because no two people have the same idea and look at it the same way with the same goal and passion. So bring your ideas. What you bring to it and add it with someone else's good things. Come.

Silvija: And even if people backstab you once, they won't do it again.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Silvija: My experience with people in general is that nine out of ten are actually wonderful people that will just surprise you by how much they want to contribute and help and inspire. And then the one that doesn't do that well, too bad for them because they are getting out of the game in the next round anyway.

Jennifer: Absolutely. And things come back. I have seen that also happen many times. So the risk of having someone take your idea, backstab you, hurt you through collaboration from my experiences is significantly less than the risk of never bringing your idea fully to its potential by keeping it under the tent.

Silvija: I want to just play a little bit outsider insider perspective on Norway with you. I'm sitting and thinking I love Norway for a million reasons. It's the country that has been kindest to me in all possible ways. But I don't understand this paradox. On one hand, they're really good at this collaborative work on something that is a social need. And yet we can't do that when we do entrepreneurship and business in the way that Silicon Valley does. Why is that? Is it kind of the mixing of money with a purpose that gets people worried, do you think?

Jennifer: Yeah, I have struggled on that one as well, to be honest. My perception on that is from entrepreneurship or even large companies working together. It is really that there hasn't been a strong history of that. There's less role models that show that that's good. Within the Norwegian mentality, there is some fear of giving away what I have. Maybe that comes from needing to live in a harsh environment. You've got to focus on your own. So there's that fear of coming together. There's not a lot of history of it. Without some examples, guidelines, motivations, it's so easy to just shrink back into the old ways. I see that as being a huge opportunity in some of the accelerators. For example, we do work with some accelerators, bringing people together, sharing ideas. There's such richness that can be done, but it just needs a few people to start out and take the risk, I'm going to do it. And once I've succeeded, I'm going to tell and help others. Because we've seen that with some of the companies recently in the last couple of years that have broken through some of the restrictions for becoming international. I look at what Kahoot has done and now Kolonial. They're kind of becoming that next generation of companies that people can look up to and say, Oh, it's okay to think bigger, it's okay to be commercial, it's okay to reach outside of Norway and encourage others. We need more of that in the accelerators, the innovation hubs and entrepreneurship, I believe.

Silvija: I think it's really interesting. When I worked ages ago in passage and transfer, there was this very strong contrast between quietly confident Norwegians that were amazing engineers and fix everything. But we're always very careful not to oversell a single millimeter of what they were doing. And then you had these very commercially aggressive Americans. It's the combination that I thought worked really well in that company. And so if you have any advice to Norwegians to be better at both growing internationally, but also commercializing internationally, what would it be?

Jennifer: It really starts with knowing what you're trying to do, back to the purpose, you'll see that there is an advantage and be passionate about what the possibilities are. And we do now have some examples that you can look up to. Look for the opportunities and just try it. Just try going outside the comfort zone. Small steps. One tiny step of. Do something different. Reach out to that partner, connect with more people on LinkedIn and other countries. Begin to have that dialogue. Just get started. Don't wait to take a course or get funding or all of the things that hold people back. Just try it.

Silvija: Just go for it. Exactly. I have one more question, Jennifer, I would like you to summarize your two acronyms, OCB and PEACE. Then I would like you to give us your life motto if you have one.

Jennifer: Okay. So the two acronyms Open, Committed and Brave means that you are open minded. You are open to new perspectives. You look for new ideas from people with different cultures, ideas, challenges. You're open to being challenged. Your commitment means that you really do have a passion and you're willing to do within reason what it takes to succeed with your goals, which can include taking risks. Bravery means you do take those risks. You try things and you recognize you may sometimes fail and it may be uncomfortable, but you're willing to take action. With that kind of open, committed, brave mindset. I believe you can achieve just about anything. Through peace, which starts with passion and purpose. Know where you're going? Be passionate about it. Exploration. Look for the necessities. Look for the inefficiencies. Look for the opportunities. And take action. Don't wait when you see there is potential. Go for it. Do it. And collaborate. Because she can't do it alone. You need others around you. And through that, you begin to empower. Which is bringing in others that share your passion. And can work with you sustainably to really drive that for the long term, ultimately achieving your purpose. So by being open, committed and brave, you can achieve peace as well as your goals.

Silvija: Very nice. And finally, you've done transformations many times in your life, and you need a lot of energy and things never work out as quickly as we originally think. How do you keep this passion burning? What do you use as your own mental tool to build grit?

Jennifer: I think my biggest weakness is lack of patience. When things take time, what I really use is recognizing other changes that we have all gone through and the success that has come from it.  It may not look rosy today, but there will be a tomorrow. I also rely very much on collaboration. I'm a community builder. That's just part of the nature of who I am. So if I'm having a bad day and not feeling there's possibilities ahead, I reach out to others in the community that are having a good day and we compare notes that help each other out. So rely on others where needs be because that's what we're in right now. It is a marathon. It's not a sprint. It takes time and you have to celebrate the little wins. You have to look to others to boost you up and just recognize that there will be a good future ahead.

Silvija: Very cool. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us on the line for an inspiring and very educational conversation. And I look forward to actually applying both the mindset of OCB and the tactics of peace.

Jennifer: Thank you. It's been an honor to be here. An absolute pleasure. I really, really appreciate it.

Du har nå lyttet til en podcast fra Lørn.Tech – en læringsdugnad om teknologi og samfunn. Nå kan du også få et læringssertifikat for å ha lyttet til denne podcasten på vårt online-universitet lorn.university.